“ Virginia Republicans who helped pass a law requiring women to get an ultrasound before an abortion found their political Facebook pages flooded this week with the kind of information normally reserved for the ob/gyn. ”
[T]he proscription of abortion has never resulted in its complete abolition … The only results of proscription have been illegal abortions that usually result in the death of the would-be mother from [hemorrhaging] or, at best, permanent [sterility]. Until the advent of the pill in 1960, married women did not have access to effective birth control (unmarried women won that right in 1972, courtesy of “Eisenstadt v. Baird”). Medicines can alter the efficacy of the pill. Despite women’s best intentions (and those of their partners), unintended pregnancy is always a possibility. There’s no morality whatsoever in [compelling] a woman to submit to unsafe surgical practices (assuming that Plan B has also been proscribed under said circumstances). No woman who doesn’t wish to become a mother should be sacrificed to prove some kind of so-called moral point. If legal abortion takes away the potential for human life, illegal abortion kills both extant and potential human life. There is no moral safety net for the “pro-life” movement.
I have made typo corrections in brackets, but did not make any substantive changes to the original post. - sweetcommie
Courtesy of user classy03-K64 in r/atheism:
This is long, but I really hope you will read it and seriously consider what I’m saying. As a woman who takes her birth control very seriously but [edit for “it” typo] is still cognizant of the fact that it might fail through no fault of my own, this is a very important issue for me.
There is a huge, huge difference between something that might affect you financially if the woman chooses to keep the baby and something that absolutely forces you to let another creature inhabit your body and leech off your oxygen and food and then force its way out of your genitals, possibly requiring them to be cut open and then sewn back up, or, if you’re not so lucky, it will simply be cut out of your stomach. There is no way that is at all comparable to maybe paying child support.
Did you miss the part where I explained why “I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for X” is extremely flawed reasoning? What if your parents met because your dad was an EMT and your mom got in a car crash? Would you suddenly become in favor of car crashes because “I wouldn’t be here if not for a car crash”?
“Why would you want to force someone to go through a car crash?”
“I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for a car crash, so I can’t support trying to eliminate car crashes.”
Yes, sometimes it’s our place to judge. It’s not your place to judge in this case because you have no idea why any given woman got pregnant. Maybe she got raped but is too afraid to report it and thus can’t get your legal exception. Maybe she’s never been educated about birth control and her boyfriend pressured her into sex. Maybe her boyfriend took off the condom in the dark. Maybe she has another child and if she has to take time off work for a pregnancy she’ll lose her job and not be able to support her existing kid. Maybe she just got a divorce because of abuse and cheating and then realized she’s pregnant with her ex-husband’s baby. Maybe she’s been married for twenty years and has four children and her husband is religious and against birth control and she just can’t handle another one. Maybe she used hormonal birth control perfectly responsibly and she was one of the few times it doesn’t work. Maybe the baby is going to have extreme health complications that will severely impact its quality of life, as well as hers. Maybe she forgot her pill one too many times, or left it in a glove compartment where it got so hot it stopped working and she didn’t know enough about chemistry to know that ahead of time. (Yes, a company once got out of a lawsuit for failed birth control because they proved the birth control in question was left out in a car at the Grand Canyon.) Maybe the condom broke. Maybe she and her boyfriend got drunk and forgot a condom. Maybe she’s being pimped out in the ghetto. Maybe she didn’t know you have to wait a week for the IUD to start working. Maybe her boyfriend lied about being sterile, or was just wrong about being sterile. Or maybe she’s just young and stupid, in which case why on earth do you want to make her responsible for a fetus’ well-being?
In the end, we know that the vast majority of abortions happen before there is even the slightest chance of the fetus resembling a unique person: in the first trimester. I could go off on a long medical explanation of why they are not conscious or able to feel pain until birth anyway, but for the sake of discussion let’s assume we’re talking about only the first trimester.
If a woman decides right away that she doesn’t want to go through a pregnancy, she will not have to cause suffering or pain to any conscious being in order to prevent doing so. No one will regret not getting to live. She will probably go on to have several other children when she is actually ready, and she may then say, as many do, that aborting the first pregnancy allowed her to have several others in the future. Her abortion will be like one of the countless natural abortions that occur in every fertile woman trying to get pregnant, wherein an embryo is created but fails to implant properly on the uterine wall and is discharged from the body like any other period.
You’re okay with abortion in cases of rape, although you probably think murder is worse than rape in general, so clearly you don’t think first-trimester abortion is murder. There is no reason to force someone to go through a pregnancy simply because they screwed up, when you also think that an abortion, in and of itself, is not automatically morally wrong. You want to have a rape exception because you think that if the woman didn’t get raped, the pregnancy is “her fault” and therefore she has to deal with it, even though this helps no one.
If abortion raises your ire because you don’t like people being careless with their birth control, then just say so. Then start working to bring better sex education to schools and more cheap birth control options to the country. There is no reason it should significantly impact your view on the legality of abortion, because in any given abortion you, again, have no idea what kind of birth control use or responsibility led to that particular pregnancy. If you don’t think flushing out an unconscious human jelly is inherently a terrible thing, seeing as it has no awareness it was ever alive and does not have enough brain stem to even feel pain, then it is not your place to come in and say that some women can have one and some women can’t just because you think some of them are good enough to deserve to make their own choices and some aren’t.
We’re both atheists, so we know there’s no such thing as destiny. There’s absolutely no reason to think that simply because you were conceived, you were meant to be born. If you still believe that, you should go spend some time looking at children with harlequin-type ichthyosis. The simple fact of your conception does not mean the world is going to be incomplete without you. Embryos die all the time and they do not regret it because they cannot. There are already more living children lacking homes than we can handle.
Banning abortion solves absolutely zero problems, and creates many new ones, not to mention being an extremely basic violation of my right to bodily autonomy and personal determination. What exactly were you hoping would be achieved by banning abortion?